May
28
The Kingdoms and Questions
Filed Under Gospel, Joseph Smith Jr., Prophets | 7 Comments
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I was reading a post over at Small & Simple and ended up with some of my own questions about the different Kingdoms of Heaven and Perdition.
1. Can anyone be a “Son of Perdition”?
I haven’t found anything concrete about this, but reading the definitions makes it out as if anyone could be one. So why the question? Well I know not every Mormon gets into this mode of thinking, but if we’re taught we are the only church teaching the truth, how could anyone come to a “personal witness of Him [Jesus Christ] from the Holy Ghost” 1, except someone who is actually taught the truth about him.
What are your thoughts on this?
2. A Testimony of Jesus Christ
One of the requirements to enter into the Celestial Kingdom is to have “received the testimony of Jesus”2. But exactly what kind of testimony is this? We all tend to bear our testimony with a piece that states “Jesus is our Savior”, and for the card carriers, we admit to having a testimony of Jesus Christ. But is this the same kind of testimony that if once we say we do, then deny it have made ourselves a son or daughter of perdition?
I always thought (and was probably taught some where down the road) that heaven would have to be opened to you, you would have to have a perfect knowledge or understanding of Jesus Christ3.
I believe the answer is held in part in [D&C 76:10], “For by my aSpirit will I benlighten them, and by my cpower will I make known unto them the dsecrets of my ewill—yea, even those things which feye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor yet entered into the heart of man”. Which seems to be more then just the basic testimony.
But…(don’t you love it)
The Iron Rod asked the same question, and came up with a different idea on this subject, one which takes from the King Follett sermon.
All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy. This is the case with many apostates of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints4.
[emphasis added]
I guess that does change it, I knew I remembered something else from a Gospel Doctrine class a few years back, and that’s why I use the term Sons and Daughters or Perdition. So it looks like it’s very possible for anyone of us to become one, which is a sobering thought.
What are your thoughts?
3. Are the Kingdoms more personal then grouping everyone into 3?
This question relies heavily on [John 14:2], ” In my Father’s ahouse are many bmansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.” [empahsis added] and [1 Cor 15:41], ” There is one glory of the asun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the bstars: for one star cdiffereth from another star in dglory.” [emphasis added]. Also by reading [D&C 131:1-4] you find that there are 3 degrees within the Celestial kingdom.
I think this goes a long way in showing exactly how much Heavenly Father loves us and wants us all to return to him. I also know as nice as it sounds, it’s also hard. I can sit here and say anything I want and make it look like I’m a perfect little angel, but that’s not the case. God understands this and Jesus takes the cases one by one.
See this is yet another one of those connected reasons I love. In Fatherhood (Parenthood), you can see the process on a lower level. I have 3 kids, and each one is different. They respond differently to punishments, love, and fun. I cannot (even though I do sometimes) use the same reasoning on each one. One of my children obeys very well, one does not, and one sort of does. Like how each one of us will be “will be judged according to our works, according to the desire of our hearts “[D&C 137:7–9].
What is your take on this?
- Son Of Perdition - Wikipedia ↩
- Kingdoms of Glory (Additional Info) - Gospel Topics ↩
- Son of Perdition - Wikipedia ↩
- King Follett Discourse Part 2 ↩
May
15
Atonement, hard to understand?
Filed Under Atonement, Faith, Gordon B. Hinckley, Gospel, Prophets, Talks | 3 Comments
I don’t feel as though I completely understand the Atonement. Don’t get me wrong, I get the jist of it - but I feel like I’m missing pieces of it.
I looked up the Atonement under Gospel Topics on lds.org. There is a brief description of the atonement and some addtional links for other information. I chose to look at Church Magazine Articles to see if there were some talks out there that might help me understand it in a more plain fashion.
Reading that the Atonement is “the most difficult to understand”1, or “it is impossible for me to put into words the full meaning”2 of the Atonement is not exactly what I needed to see. I need it easy!
But I figure I’m going to have to read a lot, if I want to get to a better understanding of it. We can start with the basics of it and what it does for us.
The Bible Dictionary states “Atone describes the setting “at one” of those who have been estranged, and denotes the reconciliation of man to God. Sin is the cause of the estrangement, and therefore the purpose of atonement is to correct or overcome the consequences of sin.”3
If you look it up through Gospel Topics, it says this “As used in the scriptures, to atone is to suffer the penalty for sins, thereby removing the effects of sin from the repentant sinner and allowing him or her to be reconciled to God. Jesus Christ was the only one capable of carrying out the Atonement for all mankind. Because of His Atonement, all people will be resurrected, and those who obey His gospel will receive the gift of eternal life with God.”4
In essence, Jesus is our rescuer, and he stands in our place. He was the only one capable. Because He was born of a mortal mother [could die] and of an imortal Father [overcome death]. 5
I’m still missing something though and I think it has to do with sin and the effects there of. What I mean is, if we commit sin that removes us from God - the opposite of atone [at one]. As a mortal we can only do so much, repent and obey. To complete the process [what we can't do] Jesus atoned for us, enabling us to return [at one] to God. It’s our choice.
Gordon B. Hinckley explained it like this
“a one room school house in the mountains of Virginia where the boys were so rough no teacher had been able to handle them.
“Then one day an inexperienced young teacher applied. He was told that every teacher had received an awful beating, but the teacher accepted the risk. The first day of school the teacher asked the boys to establish their own rules and the penalty for breaking the rules. The class came up with 10 rules, which were written on the blackboard. Then the teacher asked, ‘What shall we do with one who breaks the rules?’
“ ‘Beat him across the back ten times without his coat on,’ came the response.
“A day or so later, … the lunch of a big student, named Tom, was stolen. ‘The thief was located—a little hungry fellow, about ten years old.’
“As Little Jim came up to take his licking, he pleaded to keep his coat on. ‘Take your coat off,’ the teacher said. ‘You helped make the rules!’
“The boy took off the coat. He had no shirt and revealed a bony little crippled body. As the teacher hesitated with the rod, Big Tom jumped to his feet and volunteered to take the boy’s licking.
“ ‘Very well, there is a certain law that one can become a substitute for another. Are you all agreed?’ the teacher asked.
“After five strokes across Tom’s back, the rod broke. The class was sobbing. ‘Little Jim had reached up and caught Tom with both arms around his neck. “Tom, I’m sorry that I stole your lunch, but I was awful hungry. Tom, I will love you till I die for taking my licking for me! Yes, I will love you forever!” ’6
In this parable, I would hazard a guess that in the great counsel in heaven we all agreed on the rules. God is the teacher, we are Little Jim and Jesus is Tom. Jesus stepped in for us because as a mortal we can not bear the punishment alone.
I once asked a Stake President to help me understand the Atonement, and he went about it in an even simpler method taking his garbage can and putting it to the edge of his desk. Then telling me the items on his desk were our sins, wiped them into the garbage can. Back then I didn’t quite grasp that concept, I over thought it, but it makes sense. I can not forgive myself and be worthy to enter the Kingdom of Heaven - Jesus has got to help. He can take those red stains of sin and turn them white 7.
I understand now more so about why they counsel that it is hard to understand or to put into words the concept of the Atonement. There is a lot of pieces that are not known to me, suffice it to say that you keep digging deeper to learn as much as you can about it.
James E. Faust understood what was meant in Mosiah 4:6-7 when he said “Our salvation depends on believing in and accepting the Atonement.”
I’ll end this by saying that, I am not a LDS scholar, nor do I consider myself all that smart with the LDS Gospel. I’m trying to learn as much as I can, and so there may be errors in my thoughts. I’m not trying to pass anything off as official, but making sense of what I don’t understand. If you feel there are errors here, please let me know.
- James E. Faust -The Atonement: Our Greatest Hope ↩
- Elder M. Russell Ballard - The Atonement and the Value of One Soul ↩
- Bible Dictionary - Atonement ↩
- Gospel Topic - Atonement of Jesus Christ ↩
- Gospel Topic - Atonement of Jesus Christ; Additional Information ↩
- Pres. Hinckley: Christmas a Result of Redeeming Christ,” Church News, 10 Dec. 1994, 4 ↩
- Isaiah 1:18 ↩
May
12
About
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Some years ago, I wanted to have a LDS oriented site that could bring together members and non-members into a better understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ. It’s gone through some problems, and it’s even come back from the dead a few times, but it’s still here and now I hope that it can become what I’ve always wanted it to become, a great site with lots of meaningful posts, insights, and discussions about the gospel of Jesus Christ, the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and anything else having to do with that topic.
I hope you enjoy this site and join to offer your insights!
Helaman