May
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I was reading a post over at Small & Simple and ended up with some of my own questions about the different Kingdoms of Heaven and Perdition.
1. Can anyone be a “Son of Perdition”?
I haven’t found anything concrete about this, but reading the definitions makes it out as if anyone could be one. So why the question? Well I know not every Mormon gets into this mode of thinking, but if we’re taught we are the only church teaching the truth, how could anyone come to a “personal witness of Him [Jesus Christ] from the Holy Ghost” 1, except someone who is actually taught the truth about him.
What are your thoughts on this?
2. A Testimony of Jesus Christ
One of the requirements to enter into the Celestial Kingdom is to have “received the testimony of Jesus”2. But exactly what kind of testimony is this? We all tend to bear our testimony with a piece that states “Jesus is our Savior”, and for the card carriers, we admit to having a testimony of Jesus Christ. But is this the same kind of testimony that if once we say we do, then deny it have made ourselves a son or daughter of perdition?
I always thought (and was probably taught some where down the road) that heaven would have to be opened to you, you would have to have a perfect knowledge or understanding of Jesus Christ3.
I believe the answer is held in part in [D&C 76:10], “For by my aSpirit will I benlighten them, and by my cpower will I make known unto them the dsecrets of my ewill—yea, even those things which feye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor yet entered into the heart of man”. Which seems to be more then just the basic testimony.
But…(don’t you love it)
The Iron Rod asked the same question, and came up with a different idea on this subject, one which takes from the King Follett sermon.
All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy. This is the case with many apostates of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints4.
[emphasis added]
I guess that does change it, I knew I remembered something else from a Gospel Doctrine class a few years back, and that’s why I use the term Sons and Daughters or Perdition. So it looks like it’s very possible for anyone of us to become one, which is a sobering thought.
What are your thoughts?
3. Are the Kingdoms more personal then grouping everyone into 3?
This question relies heavily on [John 14:2], ” In my Father’s ahouse are many bmansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.” [empahsis added] and [1 Cor 15:41], ” There is one glory of the asun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the bstars: for one star cdiffereth from another star in dglory.” [emphasis added]. Also by reading [D&C 131:1-4] you find that there are 3 degrees within the Celestial kingdom.
I think this goes a long way in showing exactly how much Heavenly Father loves us and wants us all to return to him. I also know as nice as it sounds, it’s also hard. I can sit here and say anything I want and make it look like I’m a perfect little angel, but that’s not the case. God understands this and Jesus takes the cases one by one.
See this is yet another one of those connected reasons I love. In Fatherhood (Parenthood), you can see the process on a lower level. I have 3 kids, and each one is different. They respond differently to punishments, love, and fun. I cannot (even though I do sometimes) use the same reasoning on each one. One of my children obeys very well, one does not, and one sort of does. Like how each one of us will be “will be judged according to our works, according to the desire of our hearts “[D&C 137:7–9].
What is your take on this?
- Son Of Perdition - Wikipedia ↩
- Kingdoms of Glory (Additional Info) - Gospel Topics ↩
- Son of Perdition - Wikipedia ↩
- King Follett Discourse Part 2 ↩
Last 5 posts by Helaman
- Personal Revelation or making a tough decision easy with the Lord - July 18th, 2008
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7 Responses to “The Kingdoms and Questions”
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Nice post and thanks for the links.
Can anyone be a son of perdition? The answer to this is clearly no. It requires knowing God’s power and denying it. I seem to remember something from President Kimball on this. Maybe from a conference talk of ‘Miracle of Forgiveness’. But I believe one would have to have a high level of personal revelation and some awesome experiences to do this.
As far as the KFD quote goes, I think there are some things to consider. One is that we do not know which apostates we are talking about and what their level of understanding was. Some of these apostates were apostles, first presidency members (?), witnesses of the BofM, etc. These were probably the people he was talking about - not a common inactive member.
I am not against salvation by degrees which might be more than three in number (memories of holy hand grenades). But one thing I still can’t shake is how permanent the kingdoms seem to be in the scriptural descriptions (worlds without end and such).
Eric Nielsons last blog post..Three Degrees of What? Salvation or Damnation?
In reference to Perdition, that is a plausible argument - but there were other apostates at that point then just witnesses and apostles. It could go either way.
Can you go into more detail on the permanency? I would love to hear more.
Hey you’re welcome on the links and such!
Nice site, need more time to read it, but will return to do so.
About a testimony, if you wish to read my testimony, please attend “www.innerlightvision.com” and click “Testimony” in the menu.
Thanks
Marks last blog post..Corrupted Counsel (Advice)
Helaman, I think that a person has to have a complete understanding before their level of rebellion is what is considered as a son of perdition.
Mark, I plan to check out your sight. Welcome!
This permanency (or lack thereof) was one of BRM seven deadly heresies
The scriptures he used were D&C 76:112 and D&C 132:16-17.
Eric Nielsons last blog post..Three Degrees of What? Salvation or Damnation?
Helaman reply on May 30th, 2008 8:27 am:
I get it now, I read over the article (also found @ speeches.byu.edu) and it’s heresy #5.
I didn’t mean that people would progress through Kingdoms, I just meant that maybe it’s more personal then just lumping a group here or there - does that make sense?
But maybe it doesn’t work that way.
Maybe we should focus more on trying to get to the Celestial Kingdom then focusing on how it works specifically (this is aimed more at myself).
But thanks for pointing that out Eric, it was a good read!
I tend to agree in order to be a son or daughter of perdition that you have to have a complete understanding of God’s plan (and a testimony of it) and then willfully kick against that plan.
I mean look at Satan. He wanted all men to not have a choice in choosing good from evil which is contrary to God’s plan of allowing us agency. I think also in order to be a son or daughter of perdition that we have to put ourselves above God (or simply making God not a priority at all.) Many of the world’s vices help people towards that road. In order to be totally lost though one would have to deny all that they know is true.